Diaspora! I did not always live in the Diaspora. Civilized? I do not know what that means. Anyway, human decency is (or should be) a universal trait and should be practiced by all societies. And many do, including those in Nigeria.
On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 2:33 AM, Segun Ogungbemi <seguno2013@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for your emotional democratic expression on my comment. The import of my argument anchors on what the Bible says, "What God has joined together let no man put asunder." Since God has joined together our First Lady with her husband Goodluck Jonathan, and once we voted for the husband we equally voted for the wife. That is the logic. The constitution of Nigeria recognizes marriage as the bedrock of family institution.It is immoral, in my view, to denigrate our First Lady. There are better ways of telling her in writing our criticisms of what we perceived her to have done wrong without insulting her. It is civil and more honorable, Methinks.Prof. Segun Ogungbemi.
Sent from my iPhone"I voted for him and by implication his wife. It is morally offensive to abuse or insult our First Lady. She is not a saint and we should not expect too much from her.
It is not correct to say that our First Lady is illiterate. If she were illiterate she would not be a permanent secretary."
Prof. Ogungbemi
Prof.,
Again, I have reasons to be worried and in fact quarrel with your reasoning. First the undemocratic syllogism of the first part and the surprising-in fact, naive-
assumption behind the second.
When we vote in a democratic election, do we vote for the person standing for election AND the spouse? Did Americans vote for Obama and Mitchell? Is there even a democratic assumption that that's what we usually do? What is the logical import of your 'by implication' in that statement? If that is a legitimate constituent of democratic election, I am definitely ignorant. Wonder which aspect of the Nigerian constitution or democratic theory says that.
Second, I'm deeply worried that you think Patience Jonathan got the permsec post due to due diligence and meritocratic consideration. Should someone we shouldn't expect too much from be considered for a serious post? "To whom much is given..." can equally be inverted to read "to whom little is expected..."
We aren't talking about some authoritarian tradition here. Wiredu warns us about such inordinate respect. We are talking about lamenting bad leadership and a culture that raise mediocre to the level of honour they don't deserve. If democracy must work, we need to make life difficult for those people. And abusive language is the least of the weapons in the arsenal.
Adeshina AfolayanSent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTNFrom: Segun Ogungbemi <seguno2013@gmail.com>Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2013 17:29:16 +0100ReplyTo: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.comSubject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: Fw: Patience Jonathan is illiterateIt is sad to hear or read the kind of invectives poured on our First Lady. In Yoruba tradition we were taught to give honor and respect to elders and leaders.I don't know how old Junaid Mohammad is but it does not matter. He needs to respect our President and the First Lady. We elected our president. I voted for him and by implication his wife. It is morally offensive to abuse or insult our First Lady. She is not a saint and we should not expect too much from her.It is not correct to say that our First Lady is illiterate. If she were illiterate she would not be a permanent secretary.The politics in Rivers is a PDP affair. The people who elected Governor Rotimi Amaechi will not want the situation to deteriorate to the level it went in the 60s in the defunct Western Region before a decisive action is taken to quell the fire of destruction. The fair of Mihammad is understood but please respect our leaders particularly, the First Lady.SO
Sent from my iPhone--Tradition? In which country is that then?But "irresponsible, unconstitutional and bizarre"? Now that is language of which I thoroughly approve. Pity Junaid Muhammad spoiled it by adding the "illiterate" tag, as that brought it down to the level of vulgar abuse.However, while I can't speak about what one should approve of "as an African", I do know that Nigerians take particular delight in tagging people and their actions "illiterate", no matter how many doctorate degrees they have earned or had conferred upon them ...
AyoI invite you to follow me on Twitter @naijama--Is it not the tradition for first Ladies to respect themselves and keep out of shady deals?
Why do you not find the grabby, corrupt and shameful behaviour of this woman offensive?
This is the very reason why nonentities have usurped every level of power in Nigeria. This obsequous and embarassing fawning to please those in power and never speak truth to power.
Are you proud of the behaviour of this woman? Is she not a complete illiterate? Can the wife of a President also be a Permanent Secretary in a state! What redeeming feature can you find in this woman? Is the EFCC files on her or her shameful utterances or sheer disregard of protocol?
Please let us try to be honest with ourselves.
Cheers.
IBKSent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTNDate: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 15:33:05 -0600Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: Fw: Patience Jonathan is illiterateOne can make one's point without engaging in demeaning and divisive language. Perhaps, more important is the fact that it is the tradition in virtually all countries, regardless of constitutional mandates, to respect the wife of the head of state. In fact, it is in the tradition of African societies, not just to respect all women, but especially to respect married ones. While this political critic may have a point to make, it is consumed totally by the abusive and offensive language. "Illiterate actions?" What does that mean?As an African, I find such disrespect, especially from a highly educated critic, to be extremely offensive and not productive. By the way, I am not from Rivers State.--
On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Ibrahim Abdullah <ibdullah@gmail.com> wrote:
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: SAKA AZIMAZI <azimazi@yahoo.com>
To: "nedeoga@yahoo.com" <nedeoga@yahoo.com>; "whosayna2@yahoo.com" <whosayna2@yahoo.com>; "huseinawaziri@gmail.com" <huseinawaziri@gmail.com>; Maikudi Jimoh <maikudij@yahoo.com>; Sunny Agboju <sunnyagboju@yahoo.com>; "etemeya@yahoo.com" <etemeya@yahoo.com>; "ozikarim@yahoo.com" <ozikarim@yahoo.com>; "aaffiong@yahoo.com" <aaffiong@yahoo.com>; "mykeonum@yahoo.com" <mykeonum@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 10:13 PM
Subject: Patience Jonathan is illiterate
Make una see me see wahala o! See what my enemies sent to my box. Good morning!Well-known political critic, Junaid Muhammad, has called fresh attention to recent developments in the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) at the national level, warning that they are snowballing into a full blown governmental and security crises in Rivers State.And he brought the First Lady under the hammer for her role in the chaos.In a press statement issued today in Kano on Wednesday, Dr. Muhammad described Rivers as "coming to the limelight because of the irresponsible, unconstitutional and bizarre, illiterate actions, of the so called first lady Mrs. Patience Jonathan, who hails from the island village of Okrika in Rivers State and who sees not only Okrika but the whole of Rivers States, as her personal domain to exploit, abuse and destabilize as she sees fit because her husband Jonathan happens to be the president."He noted that the Nigerian constitution makes no provision whatsoever for the post of First Lady and confers no rights, privileges and/or responsibilities on spouses of our president or heads of governments."It is therefore illegal and completely ultra vires the constitution for any citizen, president or his spouse to usurp executive powers, and go about throwing their weight, as if they were legally recognized holders of such offices according to the law," he warned. " As at the time of writing, the commissioner of police in Rivers, his command structure and other security services are at the command of Patience Jonathan, and by her and presidential orders, most security facilities due governor, the speaker and others so entitled, have been withdrawn. Mean-while professional thugs and all manner of criminals are being recruited and pressed into service to destabilize the elected government of Rivers State."Stressing that those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat its mistakes, Dr. Muhammad pointed out that current developments in the PDP and especially in Rivers State bear an uncanny resemblance to the old Western Region, which led to the collapse of the first republic, with very serious and bloody consequences. Then and now, the popularly elected leaders of those parts of the country were prevented from exercising political power and control, and the operations of the police, the army and the rump of security services were interfered with in a brazen political manner."The current CP Rivers, is bending over backwards to accommodate the president, his cronies and his illiterate wife, to ignore or pervert the law and the constitution and norms of decent political behavior, to harass, intimidate Governor Rotimi Amaechi, and thus destabilize, a strategic state like Rivers. Those in the PDP who imagine that this serious and fundamental crisis can be contained by some band aid or artificial cordon sanitaire, have a shocker awaiting them," he said.He noted that the overriding attitude of PDP leadership, the PDP president, his cronies etc. is an open invitation to anarchy, for his party, his tottering crisis prone government and most unfortunately for Nigeria."The preponderance of the PDP in the governing processes is a clear and present danger to democracy," the statement said. "Add to that the dictatorial proclivities of the party leadership and penchant for hand picking illiterates and corrupt thugs into key and sensitive positions; you have the making of an inevitable disaster."Dr. Muhammad stressed that the latest developments throw into doubt the very possibilities of elections in 2015, those elections being the very reason for the desperate manouvres now being undertaken."If the de-facto commander–in-chief, the de-facto defence Minister and army commander Gen. Ihejirika who is an in-law to Patience [Jonathan], and his police and S.S.S. counterparts, are behaving in openly political partisan manner as heads of Jonathan's personal militia, it goes without saying that Jega's INEC will hold no elections worth the name," he declared, calling on all Nigerians who cherish democracy to stand up and be counted.He stressed that Rivers State and the fate of its governor must be of enormous concern to all democrats and patriots, pointing out that within Rivers State and beyond it, evil thrives when good and decent people take their eyes off the ball or pretend it is of no concern to them or is unrelated to neighborhoods."Personally I do not know and have never met Gov. Rotimi Amaechi in person, in Port Harcourt or anywhere else on earth," he declared. "I have not been to Rivers State since the expiry of my national service in the defunct OMPADEC (now NDDC) in 1996. I am however invested in Amaechi's struggles because I believe democracy is the only way to govern a free people rationally, and to exercise legitimate power over a free people. If the PDP and its incompetent president treat this country like a conquered and vanquished people, they must be cured of their delusion, soonest."Saka Azimazi
Network of NHRIs in West Africa (NNHRI-WA)
4th Floor, NHRC House
No. 19 Aguiyi Ironsi Street
Maitama, Abuja,
Nigeria
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JOHN MUKUM MBAKU, ESQ.
J.D. (Law), Ph.D. (Economics)
Graduate Certificate in Environmental and Natural Resources Law
Nonresident Senior Fellow, The Brookings Institution
Attorney & Counselor at Law (Licensed in Utah)
Presidential Distinguished Professor of Economics & Willard L. Eccles Professor of Economics and John S. Hinckley Fellow
Department of Economics
Weber State University
3807 University Circle
Ogden, UT 84408-3807, USA
(801) 626-7442 Phone
(801) 626-7423 Fax
J.D. (Law), Ph.D. (Economics)
Graduate Certificate in Environmental and Natural Resources Law
Nonresident Senior Fellow, The Brookings Institution
Attorney & Counselor at Law (Licensed in Utah)
Presidential Distinguished Professor of Economics & Willard L. Eccles Professor of Economics and John S. Hinckley Fellow
Department of Economics
Weber State University
3807 University Circle
Ogden, UT 84408-3807, USA
(801) 626-7442 Phone
(801) 626-7423 Fax
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